6
\$\begingroup\$

Last year my EE class had a lab where we built a treble booster. This was our schematic:

(There’s circles around the capacitors but just ignore that.)

We modeled this on a breadboard. I have a guitar at home so I wanted to turn this into a PCB, I can replicate everything except for the +5 V and -5 V that go into the opamp because we used a multimeter in the lab to generate those voltages.

I emailed a TA about this and she tried to help me but I couldn’t figure out what she meant, eventually I forgot about it and I tried emailing her again but she hasn’t responded, so I’m here.

Here’s the first email she sent to try to help:

After this email I simulated this circuit on LTSpice and sent this email:

Then she sent this in response:

This is where the emails stop because I forgot about this project, but anyways I tried going back to the simulation and setting the +4.5 V node to ground and I just ended up with no +4.5 V. But I’m confused on what I’m supposed to get from that/what I do to fix it.

I’m also confused on why the simulated circuit wouldn’t work, I’m thinking it’s because I’m arbitrarily calling something “ground” and so therefore it wouldn’t behave the way it does in the simulated circuit.

Also a couple months ago, I tried revisiting her advice and simulating another circuit and I ended up with this:

But this just feels wrong.

Anyways my main question is just how can I fix this schematic to generate the voltages I want, or should I throw it away for some other solution?

New contributor
guiitar is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering. Check out our Code of Conduct.
\$\endgroup\$
7
  • 6
    \$\begingroup\$ Just a small nitpick. The question as asked can be answered with "by defining 0V to be at half the battery supply voltage range". And that is not even a play on words or something. The actual question is "how do I generate a firm supply rail halfway between pos. and neg. supplies?" Maybe this question helps you see the answer already. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Dec 1 at 10:54
  • 2
    \$\begingroup\$ And another comment: As your application is audio, you don't need a buffered voltage halfway between your battery terminals. The application is AC, the signal can be AC coupled, and as a result, DC levels can be chosen freely. Most such circuits would simply have the actual signal opamp's operation point sit at half the supply voltage. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Dec 1 at 11:00
  • \$\begingroup\$ It might be conceptually simpler to create a circuit which uses single 9V supply for the op-amp, instead of first trying to split it into two with ground in the middle and then using the same 9V for the same op-amp. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Dec 1 at 11:17
  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ Note that TI makes the TLE2426 "rail splitter" which has a suitable OA (+/-20mA symmetric output current) and a precision matched resistor divider all wrapped up into a single 3 terminal package \$\endgroup\$ Commented Dec 1 at 12:48
  • \$\begingroup\$ You need to make sure that the op amp can sink enough current for your purpose. Op amp circuits for this purpose often use things like transistors in the feedback loop to boost output current capabilities. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Dec 1 at 14:07

2 Answers 2

15
\$\begingroup\$

This is a copy of your own design, with labels to show potentials everywhere, and drawn in a way that makes it easier to see what's going on:

schematic

simulate this circuit – Schematic created using CircuitLab

On the left I used the ground symbol to declare that in all my algebra, node A has potential 0V. Every other node's potential will be quoted with respect to this "ground" potential. Clearly the voltage source V1 ensures that node C's potential is 9V higher than node A:

$$ V_C = V_A + V_1 = 0{\rm V} + 9{\rm V} = +9{\rm V} $$

The resistors divide the total potential difference between each end by 2. That total is \$V_C - V_A = V_1 = 9{\rm V}\$, so each resistor will have half of that, \$V_{R1}=V_{R2}=4.5V\$, across it. Therefore:

$$ V_B = V_A + V_{R2} = 0{\rm V} + \frac{1}{2}V_1 = 0{\rm V} + 4.5{\rm V} = +4.5{\rm V} $$

Alternatively, you could say that node B is 4.5V lower in potential that node C, giving the same result:

$$ V_B = V_C - V_{R1} = +9{\rm V} - \frac{1}{2}V_1 = +9{\rm V} - 4.5{\rm V} = +4.5{\rm V} $$

On the right, I've moved the ground symbol. All that does is say "node B has zero volts". It doesn't change the behaviour of the circuit at all, it's just an arbitrary "reference point", a "zero" for all the algebra. Consequently I've had to alter some "absolute" values to reflect that change, but R1 still has 4.5V across it, as does R2, and we can make the same statements - node A is 4.5V less than node B, and node C is 4.5V greater than B, regardless of where I put my ground symbol.


That is why the circuit on the right represents your desired state of affairs, a "fake ground", an abitrary 0V half way between the potentials of the battery terminals, whatever they may be. But you also need to shift all the potentials, to -4.5V, +4.5V and 0V, to reflect this new voltage labelling and referencing regime. Nothing's changed in terms of behaviour and functionality, just the labels.

Sadly, this new ground has issues - it's not the same as this:

schematic

simulate this circuit

If you did this (use two 4.5V batteries), all your problems instantly go away, there's no way A or C can be anything but 4.5V different from B (assuming the batteries are matched and fully charged).

When using a resistor divider, though, the convenient 4.5V across resistors R1 and R2 will change as a result of any amount of current flowing through them, so that 0V won't stay "0V" under any appreciable load. Rather, from a more correct perspective, since you are declaring \$V_B=0{\rm V}\$, you can say that's always true, but then strictly speaking it would be \$V_A\$ and \$V_C\$ that are changing, relative to \$V_B\$, as a result of changing potential differences across R1 and R2.

That's a problem largely solved (with some caveats I won't talk about here) by an op-amp voltage follower:

schematic

simulate this circuit

The op-amp becomes responsible for sinking and sourcing any current requirement (shown in blue) at its output directly to/from the supply rails, bypassing R1 and R2 altogether. Therefore those resistors always have 4.5V across them, and the op-amp always duplicates their now-always-correct "0V" junction potential at its own output. We would say that this is a "low-impedance source" of 0V.

Also, you can raise the values of R1 and R2, and still maintain a good clean and stable "0V" at their junction, for reduced power wastage in those resistors.


Ironically, all this is moot, because the amplifier design has most of the elements necessary to overcome this lack of "centre-ground" already. There's only one additional resistor necessary to make the circuit operate as you want, R6 here:

schematic

simulate this circuit

Capacitors C3, C4 and C5 isolate all AC fluctuations from any mean DC offsets (shown in red, also called "quiescent" levels, or "DC operating point", or "biasing") of the op-amps's inputs and output. Such "biasing" is established by the resistor divider R5 & R6, to a DC potential half-way between the 0V and +9V supply rails. This fools the op-amp into "thinking" that all its signals fluctuate around +4.5V, smack in the middle of its own supply potentials, when in reality \$V_{IN}\$ and \$V_{OUT}\$ are actually wobbling around 0V.

Just one extra resistor, R6, no need for a fake ground, or another op-amp to strengthen it.

\$\endgroup\$
8
  • 2
    \$\begingroup\$ "there's no way A or C can be anything but 4.5V different from B" ... until the batteries become unbalanced. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Dec 1 at 13:30
  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ @KristoferA good point, I added that caveat \$\endgroup\$ Commented Dec 1 at 13:33
  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ @periblepsis I do that too occasionally, answer the titular question, forgetting about the much of the body \$\endgroup\$ Commented Dec 2 at 11:07
  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ @SimonFitch Working with you would be my privilege and honor. :) Best wishes. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Dec 2 at 11:45
  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ @periblepsis those are extremely kind words, thank you - I feel I would disappoint, some of your maths makes me feel I'm still in kindergarten. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Dec 2 at 13:19
3
\$\begingroup\$

The following circuit will provide a balanced GND (VCC-GND = GND - VEE) when connecting a 9V battery.

\$\endgroup\$
5
  • \$\begingroup\$ That looks like a nice opamp choice! What do you think about the difference when including R18 in the feedback loop vs the way you've arranged it? (The opamp has its own output impedance.) What's your thinking about R18, generally? \$\endgroup\$ Commented Dec 1 at 10:44
  • \$\begingroup\$ @periblepsis: Thanks for the comment. I agree, R18 should be included in the feedback loop for improved biasing. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Dec 1 at 11:56
  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ I was curious. Anyway I like the opamp choice because of the very low quiescent current (if I'm reading the datasheet right) and the output compliance, too. So +1. It's very tempting for this situation. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Dec 1 at 12:26
  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ max current for this op amp is 150mA, short circuit output current is 60mA,and the output voltage swing starts falling appreciably above about 20mA. As long as this is OK, this circuit is good enough \$\endgroup\$ Commented Dec 1 at 14:05
  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ When we use this in my class (we use OPA197) with 9V battery, around 10% of circuits are unstable (it depends on specific batch of opamps), 10 uF across R16 solve this problem. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Dec 1 at 19:39

Your Answer

By clicking “Post Your Answer”, you agree to our privacy policy.

Start asking to get answers

Find the answer to your question by asking.

Ask question

Explore related questions

See similar questions with these tags.