Two key Republicans on foreign policy -- Rep. Mike Rogers (R-MI), chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, and Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) -- say the United States should not release the postmortem photos of Osama bin Laden.
"I don't want to make the job of our troops serving in places like Iraq and Afghanistan any harder than it already is," Rogers said, NBC's Kelly O'Donnell reports. "The risks of release outweigh the benefits. Conspiracy theorists around the world will just claim the photos are doctored anyway, and there is a real risk that releasing the photos will only serve to inflame public opinion in the Middle East. Imagine how the American people would react if al Qaeda killed one of our troops or military leaders and put photos of the body on the Internet.
"Osama bin Laden is not a trophy; he is dead, and let's now focus on continuing the fight until al Qaeda has been eliminated."
After an intelligence briefing on Capitol Hill, McCain said it was a "judgment" the president has to make, but that he believes it's "not necessary to do," NBC's Joel Seidman reports. McCain said he had himself not seen any of the photos.
McCain added it was his understanding that the information on the bin Laden "courier" did not come from so-called "enhanced interrogation."
*** UPDATE *** Sen. Scott Brown (R-MA), who said he has seen the photos, also says the administration should not release the pictures.
“Let me assure you that he is dead, that bin Laden is dead — I have seen the photos,” Brown said in an interview with NECN, according to the Boston Globe: "Brown admits he was fooled by fake picture."
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These two Republicans got it right. What say you, John Boehner and Eric Cantor? Perhaps it would be best to do what is best for our troops and not what the Tea Party wants you to do
different strokes for different folks. my stroke, just bring back our troops. i careless about his dead pictures.
we want no more fight or war. we can't afford it.
Not often I agree with Congressional Republicans, but they are correct.
There is a difference between elected Republicans/Democrats and Americans. Americans don't make a habit of lying to their boss.
And what makes you think the Tea Party feels any differently that these two senators? Give me a break! One of the reasons I have always been an "independent" is that I think both parties have their own private agenda -- and it has nothing to do with what's good for the American people. It's called G R E E D !!! They should be required to be bound by the same laws as everyone else - and that goes for insurance and retirement benefits. I don't know of another job around that allows people to vote their own raises and keep the same salary for life, mind you, after only one term of office. Rome was destroyed from within and I'm afraid that appears to be where we're headed.
"And what makes you think the Tea Party feels any differently that these two senators?"
Perhaps the fact that they will start endless conspiracy theories regarding this matter? Already have started. The fact is this will happen no matter what evidence is released. I would consider the troops first and not release these photos for some time in the interests of national security.
And what makes you think the Tea Party feels any differently that these two senators?
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Because the tea baggers say the opposite of whatever Obama says.
I just don't get the whole... "He's not really dead" conspiracy theory...
It's really, REALLY friggin simple....
If he wasn't dead... dont'cha think he'd pop-up with a video, or a tape saying...
"Look, I'm not dead, Obama is lying..."
Do any of the doubters have a response to that?
I'd love to hear it.
I have conflicting feelings on this subject. On the one hand I understand we should take the high road and uphold our professional standards when dealing with our enemies and their customs. This is the logical response.
My emotional response, on the other hand, I dont feel they deserve our respect. They certainly didnt have any respect for our feelings when they videotaped their beheadings of our citizens and filmed American corpses being dragged on the back of pickup trucks while celebrating.
I agree Lib50 and AZChzhd about being conflicted. I have to admit I wanted to see the photos because after all, Subhuman ObL certainly never treated his victims with any dignity, so why should we?
I have friends who feel very strongly that at least the families of the victims should be able to view the photos for "closure". I don't quite get that, but to each their own. If they want to view the photos, then ok - but keep them away from the media (and the internet!).
The guy was ugly enough in real life - why view his ugly mug post death?
There was no teaparty when Bush was president, they started getting loud and aggressive shortly after Obama took office.
As for the photos, whatever is best for this country is what should be done. I can see Obama's point so I'll go with that. I think pictures will leak out at some point, they always do in the end.
The teaparty started after Obama got into office. I know Ron Paul might have used the term when he started revving up his candidacy for Pres in 07-08, but the group we know today as the teaparty is the far right fringe of the republican party. It isn't even close to what Ron Paul started.
AZChzhd
lib50...far right fringe of the Republicans? Really? How do you explain the 54 Tea Party Republicans voting with the Dems on a number of issues like the Patriot Act and stopping additional spending on military contracts?
While you are correct the Tea Party revved up under Obama, particularly during the debate for Obamacare, it definitely was around during Bush's years and protesting against the wars. It wasnt only liberals out there picketing on Bush's ranch like Cindy Sheehan. Libertarians were also equally as annoyed with Bush.
Besides, exactly what is wrong with initiating disussions on our ballooning debt? If it wasnt for the TP, nobody would be talking about this.
They should have a private bipartisan showing of the photos to any leader that wants to see it, it doesn't need to be published anywhere.
Let those leaders, both dems, repubs and any world leader that feels the need to see it confirm the pictures are real and relay that fact to their constituents. That should be enough for anyone.
How is publishing them make it easier to athenticate? All publishing them will do is heat up the Arab street. It would make things worse whether they're real or not.
I myself, have no doubt that OBL is dead. I don't need to see the pictures. I take the word of the President.
If they have a need to see them, we only let them look at them, not get copies. They can't release what they physically don't have, although I'm sure that fakes are already circulating around.
Agree with you completely Tom. Excellent plan, and since Senator Brown (R) has already seen them and states emphatically that OBL is dead, that just may be what is happening.
And if it would give closure to any of the families of 9/11, the Cole or any other person whose family was murdered at the orders of this creature, let those who want to take a look also under special conditions.
I don't need to see the pics. I believe the President and those other officials involved.
It will not be enough for the conspiracy types if the pictures were plastered across every paper, magazine, t.v. and the Internet. And they should be treated as the irrelevant folks that they are.
I asked myself the following questions:
The answer I keep coming back to is that this portion of the American population simply Hate Obama. The theories, the word socialism etc., are used as justification for people who hate Obama. It is not about his policies, not healthcare, Wall Street oversight, or social programs. It’s that they can’t admit to their own hate, bigotry and racism. I would guess many can’t even admit that to themselves. So they justify it with all these theories, all these made up falsehoods’. Glenn Beck and his ilk (Fox News) and other shock jock and talk radio entertainers simply plug into the hate and fear, and ignorance of that portion of the population looking for justification to “Hate Obama”. They simply supply those “haters” with reasons, true or false or for that mater out and out lies to justify their hate without having to expose themselves for what they really are, ignorant bigots and racists. As far as I can tell, all prejudice is based in fear and ignorance and the prejudice heaped on President Obama is no exception. So, he was right to say “They simply don’t know me”. I’m sure as a black man, he is used to it, and understands it, sees it for what it is. I’m sure he has come to the same conclusions that I have, that you can’t blame people for being ignorant; they simply need to be educated. They need to face the fears of their past as it relates to different cultures, the unknown, that which they do not understand, and maybe come to appreciate the differences But after so long a time I suspect that most will simply hold on to the prejudice they were raised with, they were given by their parents and grand parents. It’s comfortable, it’s all they know, and it is safe within the 20 square miles they grew up in. By the way, I’m a white guy. I just left home young, lived in Europe a few years, and all over this great country of ours. I have experienced many different cultures, and have hopefully overcome many of my own prejudices through the experience. So, these are just words from my own journey. It’s not like I don’t understand I have to admit that when I was young and that was all I knew… I was ignorant, hateful, and bigoted. Hate in all its forms is a bad thing; get it out of our heart. Don’t waste your vote by voting with your hatred, vote with your mind and your heart.
Tim,
Great Job on this post. I hope you post it again.
Tim, some good points. Few of us manage to learn so much from personal experience.
I suspect, though, that you may be giving too much importance to race in accounting for this irrational hatred. The willingness to believe obvious falsehoods started before he became president. Kerry was a lying coward, you'll remember. Al Gore was a starry-eyed, do-gooding tree hugger. And "Slick Willie" was hated beyond the bounds of reason. I'd guess race accounts for about 10% of the hatred. All of it compounded by the shift to the internet (where anybody can say anything) and the emergence of Fox News.
The extreme right isn't just plain "ignorant" either, not in the sense you mean. They tend to be old, white, and working class, but they know as much as the rest of us. It's just that what they know tends to be false or one-sided. I know a guy who can tell you the smallest detail of the Whitewater affair but who never heard of the Project For A New American Century.
As for your question about why people vote against their own interests -- and they DO because, whether they know it or not, they're being guided and funded by millionaires and corporations -- it's partly because they see Obama as an evil agent of change. What do we do with "evil"? We fight it wherever it appears. We wage war against it. And wars require sacrifice. If it would get Obama out of office they'd cut off a pinkie.
Fox News (and talk radio) are complicit. Yesterday Bret Baier (an objective news program) reported that when Obama took office, 40% of us paid no federal income tax, and now it's 51%. No mention of mitigating factors like the federal taxes on gasoline, which the poor pay like the rest of us. And Baier's report emphasized that the top 20% of us pay 47% of federal income tax, without mentioning that the top TEN percent own more than 71% of the wealth.
But that's just fuel on the fire. People are scared to death. The old way of life (however mythical) is disappearing. We're not the undisputed superpower we used to be. There are Latinos all over the place. And we are headed for a Global Caliphate. The fear leads to anger and the anger, unfocused, is redirected to safe targets like the poor and dependent elderly and minorities. It's like the guy who gets fired, so he comes home and kicks his dog.
ROBERT: Excellent post. I do think race plays some part in the Rights despising Obama but that's merely the icing on the cake for them. Just one more reason to detest him is all it really is.
After all, one has only to look at Clintons 8 years and it was simply one witch hunt after another. First it was White Water, than the Vince Foster conspiracy theory (which include a nut case congressman shooting watermelons in his backyard and then of course the whole Lewinsky deal.
The hatred which these people display is beyond comprehension. When the health care bill was passed you would have thought that Obama had announced the opening of concentration camps. One of the problems being that it's awfully difficult to educate people when the Republicans are masters of the 10 second sound bite which is invariably false but so difficult to refurte because it requires subtlety and a degree of sophisticationk that many voters lack. Many of these people can't sit still long enough to absorb the real facts or if they can, are unable be able to appreciate the significance.
So in your opinion it didn't work, fine. So are you going to attack people you don't agree with, make things up and demonize them? I don't exactly agree with raising taxes, and growing our debt. I am not going to stoop so low as to demonize those that don't agree with me. That is the point I am trying to make. This attacking has to stop, both sides are attacking all the time. It's like they are out to get each other and out do each other at any cost. You can't tell me that the Dems are squeeky clean and Repubs are the root of all our problems, it just isn't so. Both have faults and both are the root to the problems and both need to work together to solve them. This 'we tried to get along' is a load of crap. You know it as well as anyone who knows the history of that era. All I am saying is both sides have to work together, we the people need to stop listening to the media outlets that fuel the flames.
Paul...you are darn right they were RINOs. And when you are called a RINO, you tend act more like liberals than conservatives. So I cant figure out why thats a problem for a liberal?? Seems to me the liberals would rather have a RINO than a conservative. If not then you guys are truly confused and have an identity crisis of your own.
The way I see it, the left complains when the Republicans act like liberals, calling them RINOs, and they also complain when the Republicans act like conservatives because, well, they are conservative. So then WTF? Then to top it off, you attack the Tea Party by calling them teabaggers. Now spare me they started this name crap because we all know your usage of that particular term isnt the same as the Tea Party's.
The biggest thing is, most on the right agree with you liberals that the Republicans were RINOs, hence the rise of the Tea Party. But you will complain regardless, so complain away! We are used to it by niw.
Got to agree...McCain got it right.
Since the Bin Laden family is not denying his death, just that he was executed, why put our troops in any more danger than they are in.
Scott, I agree with you completely. When I saw there were parties in the streets over his death I couldn't help but be rather sick to my stomach. I remembered when those American contractors were killed and burned and drug through the streets.
While I'm glad he's gone, and proud as ever of our armed forces and president for being able to check bin Ladin's name off the to-do list, it should be just that. We need to stop being so cocky. It makes us vulnerable.
IRA
More than likely they are fakes but neither you or anyone else on here can definately say no one hasn't leaked anything. You are not in a position to know these things.
You're right no one here knows anything more than they read. In THIS case I will tend to believe our President.
FOI doesn't apply if the photos are Classified.
This is the adult dignified thing to do. Leave them be in a file.
"Osama bin Laden is not a trophy; he is dead, and let's now focus on continuing the fight until al Qaeda has been eliminated."
As Jeremy Scahill stated last night, this is never going to happen. It's impossible.
Think Progress:
U.S. officials said the Obama administration is seeking to use Osama bin Laden’s death to accelerate a negotiated settlement with the Taliban “and hasten the end of the war in Afghanistan.”
_____________________________________________________
I remember reading in a spy novel recently about a Berliner who served in WWI, then became a police officer. When the Nazi's came to power, he hated them, so he on his own became a private investigator, who was then used by Heydrich, because Heydrich himself felt he needed someone who wasn't a "yes man" and since this investigator wasn't a Nazi, he used him to investigate murders and such going on in Berlin.
To make a long story short, in 1954, the Americans kidnapped this investigator long gone from Germany but brought him back, because they needed him to pinpoint a high level Communist KGB leader in Berlin, who the investigator had known back in Berlin before WWII.
The Americans treated this investigator with contempt but the investigator said he would help the Americans nail this guy, with conditions of course. This investigator was never a Nazi, but was treated as one simply because he grew up in Berlin and had daily contact with Heyrich.
When the time came to pick up the communist, the CIA with this investigator were led to a hideout apartment in Berlin to wait for this high level communist to show up. But instead of picking up the communist, the investigator instead had the communists pick up the CIA.
Why did he do it? Because he was tired of the Americans telling the world how much better they were than everybody else. Just a novel I know. But I got the point.
This is one of those moments. No bragging. No photo's. No anything.
Let's get out of Afghanistan.
Paul that would have to be a pretty big room, I think it would be safe to say that even the people who post here that they are against it would be seen going into and out of that room.
Wow - I agree with them!
For a change the GOP sounds reasonable and that they care about America and our Troops.
Is it possible?
TRUTH - not CRAP
Thank you and GOD BLESS AMERICA
I know what you mean, Democrat Soldier---funny to agree with them. Evidence never stands in the way of a true conspiracy theorist. The man is dead, let's move on.
Not an obama fan but he deserves the credit he is due in getting this action done without any loss of life by our men in uniform and I don't care what McCain thinks. Release these photo's, do it now and get it done and over with.
IF the photographic evidence is released we will see that picture on banners across the Arab world for decades of martyrdom protests. It will become a rallying icon.
Release the less dramatic but equally definative burial at sea photos and let it be done; dead and buried in the sea, fitting end.
If followers want to do pilgrimage they can take a cruise.
missy they are already waving pictures of bin laden while he was alive not much difference between dead or alive pictures except that the dead picture will prove to the disbelievers that he is really dead. That compound will be the shrine they will cling to.
Put the photos out now, stop the debate get it done and over with.
Jon.....
What if Bin Laden isn't dead but alive in U.S. custody? What would you do if you were Obama in that case?
Do you suppose that the administration, while planning this operation, considered a number of "what-if's" ?
Whether Bin Laden is dead or alive in U.S. custody is not a purely academic consideration. Obviously, Bin Laden could provide much more information alive than dead.
There are many reasons why the administration might want to conceal the knowledge that Bin Laden is alive in U.S. custody.
The fact that Bin Laden's death has not been objectively proven (to the public) must be causing much anxiety amongst our enemies.
Jon Exner, Obama released his actual LEGAL certificate of live birth in 2008. You know, the one you need to get a passport? The one with the raised seal.
The fact is Obama shouldn't have released ANY birth certificates. He should have told the conspiracy nutbags to eff off. No other president ever has. Of course, no other president was half black either and that's all the birthers care about anyway.
Well ian he released it to the dumocratic party before the primaries, I am one who believes in the constitution. I believe a system should be set up for anyone who runs for President, Vice President or the Speaker of the House to present their birth certificates to the Federal Election commission for authentication. This notion that each party can and will police their own candidates is a joke open to possible abuse, like letting the fox protect the hen house.
For far too long we have looked the other way and allowed dead people to vote, non-citizens to vote, vote in one state and absentee ballot in another because people have residences in more than one state.
Now you can respond and say it never happens, but I won't buy the bridge you have in your back yard.
You just cannot fix stupid...
Jon - get help. Really.
My hope is that the President takes the podium sais "NO! I will not release these and give ammunition to extremists, both Muslim and Christian, for directed hatred." Neither group needs any encouragement.
I agree with this completely. There is no point in releasing the photos. If he was taken alive he should have been paraded around, quickly taken to trail and executed and the body disposed of where no one would ever find it like they did already.
The folks who need proof will never be satisfied regardless of what evidence is shown.
And for those who want to talk hoax, why would anyone try to fool someone on this. All Bin Laden would have to do is make a new video noting current events and laugh at us for even suggesting he is dead.
The HOAX isn't that he is dead, he is. The Hoax is that we killed him "in action".
Anyone can shoot a corpse in the eye.
You are proving my point exactly. And of course we just happened to know where the preserved body was and we popped a couple of caps in it. Let me add that to my Hoax check list.
Sure it was a hoax..... Hoax check list
1) Find bizarre compound close to capital of Islamabad
2) Arrange with our friends the Pakis to kill innocent inhabitants of compound with no worries
3) Arrange Seal team and all military personnel to go along with hoax
4) Arrange for all key administration personnel to go along with hoax
5) Arrange for previous Bin Laden tapes to be released to insure people think he is still alive so this administration can take credit for killing him.
6) Insure that the Bush administration does not make the kill or get credit.
7) And make sure execution of the plan interrupts Celebrity Apprentice
8) Mission complete
You said that already Lou; on several other threads too, no less. What gives? Cat got your tongue or did that elephant you were petting step on you?
Never seen a squeal penned as "bla bla, bla bla,..." ad nauseum before. Always thought that was "weeeee-weeeeee-weeeee" all the way home.
[Cat got your tongue or did that elephant you were petting step on you?]
After reading Lou's profile, I've come to the conclusion that he isn't "petting" that elephant...
I say release the photo's, but not to let senator's or congressmen see it and report back to all of us on what they saw. any other time we would not believe half of what these people tell us, why would we start now. and also give obama the credit he deserves for doing what w could'nt do or was to busy in iraq to do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The GOP wants this out of the news as soon as possible! Obama got the job done! We Killed Bin Laden, pushed through health care, and the economy is improving. What has the GOP done? Oh yeah...
COMPLAIN!
POINT FINGERS!
And confirmed that Obama was born here. Pretty important stuff.
Obama again in 2012.
Good call "again" Mr. President.