Talk:Map improvements 2018
Add topicLatest comment: 6 years ago by WhatamIdoing in topic Community wishlist items
| This page used the Structured Discussions extension to give structured discussions. It has since been converted to wikitext, so the content and history here are only an approximation of what was actually displayed at the time these comments were made. |
Leave your thoughts and ideas here about the "Map improvements 2018" project.
Waiting for it :)
[edit]Go Go Go !!! Naveenpf (talk) 03:06, 27 February 2018 (UTC)
- Thanks @Naveenpf. We're excited to be working on this project. JMatazzoni (WMF) (talk) 22:07, 27 February 2018 (UTC)
Enabling and testing Kartographer on new wikis?
[edit]Is it possible to have Kartographer enabled on new wikis for testing? Is the development work on it going to be propagated to the production systems gradually or will it be purely closed testing (e.g. on testwiki only) in the beginning? I'm very interested in trying this out as early as possible on bgwiki. — Luchesar • T/C 15:52, 16 March 2018 (UTC)
- Hi @Iliev,
- Kartographer can be deployed to bgwiki. We don't anticipate technical problems.
- We don't expect our work to be restricted to testwiki. It should be deployed everywhere on a weekly basis after it's been tested.
- You might find interesting to know that we are currently working on localization of the maps labels. They are currently shown in their local language (names on the map of France are shown in french, names in Japan are shown in japanese, etc) but with this change all labels will be shown in the page language that embeds the map (assuming translations exist). You can find more information in https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T112948.
- The reason I mention it is because this will make the maps much more interesting and pleasant to readers of your wiki. You may prefer to wait for this feature to be ready before enabling it on your wiki. SBisson (WMF) (talk) 18:00, 16 March 2018 (UTC)
- @Sbisson (WMF), thank you very much for the quick and detailed answer. It's really great to hear that the project is actively moving ahead. What would be the procedure to ask for Kartographer to be enabled on bgwiki: a ticket on Phabricator, perhaps, or something else? — Luchesar • T/C 20:23, 16 March 2018 (UTC)
- Yes, file a task on Phabricator and tag it with
Collab-Maps(and if you could put the link here too, that would be great). We do require local community consensus before enabling maps, though, so if there isn't already one, you would first have to start a discussion about it on bgwiki, then if the other users agree, file a task pointing to that consensus. Roan Kattouw (WMF) (talk) 22:34, 16 March 2018 (UTC) - @Roan Kattouw (WMF), thank you! So are there any downsides to enabling the Kartographer extension that need to be considered by the community? My impression was that the extension would simply allow the use of the
mapframetag—not impose anything else on the editing process. Am I missing something? — Luchesar • T/C 22:45, 16 March 2018 (UTC) - In other words, why a community may want to oppose to Kartographer being enabled? — Luchesar • T/C 22:47, 16 March 2018 (UTC)
- I'll defer to @CKoerner (WMF) for the answer to that, he's been working on maps for much longer than I have. Roan Kattouw (WMF) (talk) 22:57, 16 March 2018 (UTC)
- Sorry for the delay in responding @Iliev, I was out last week. As for reasons why a community wouldn't want Kartographer to be enabled? Some folks, and communities, are a little more conservative in adopting new technologies. Some would like it if other wikis are early adopters before bringing software to their community. That said, I think there is minimal potential for negative impact of Kartographer. If it's not used on an article, no problem! If it is used and there are bugs, they can be reported, and the map removed from use until the issue is resolved.
- I hope that helps provide al little context. CKoerner (WMF) (talk) 16:43, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
- @CKoerner (WMF), that's exactly what I needed as an explanation. Thank you! I'll initiate a discussion on our Village pump. — Luchesar • T/C 10:22, 29 March 2018 (UTC)
- @Iliev In the meantime, you and others in the bgwiki community can also help by 13:27, 29 March 2018 (UTC)
- @Roan Kattouw (WMF), excellent idea, thanks! :) — Luchesar • T/C 13:33, 29 March 2018 (UTC)
- The request has been filed as 11:13, 24 April 2018 (UTC)
Internationalization
[edit]We are thrilled to hear that the internationalization is coming! (I am sorry if I did not sound very enthusiastic during the 19:32, 29 March 2018 (UTC)
- HI @Atsirlin. I enjoyed your presentation! I'll answer your question about the work we're doing and what work we might take on by pointing to a couple of pages.
- List of prioritized tasks: This list shows all the tasks we've currently prioritized for the Collaboration team maps engagement. We can't promise we'll get to all of them, but we're giving it our best shot.
- Project goals: We're happy to talk about other tasks you think are important, so long as they are consistent with the project goals and philosophy, as described on the page I've linked to. Which is to say, the project aims to improve the reliability of the maps tech generally, and to add features (mostly from the Wishlist) that improve the experience for basic "locator" maps. We're also interested in bringing maps to a wider audience, which is why we may, if we have time, make mapframe work on Flagged-Revs wikis.
- I realize that Wikivoyagers are among those who have pushed interactive mapping the furthest, so the goals here may disappoint in some ways. But the judgement of our technical and design teams is that more advanced features aren't supportable with the resources available.
- That said, we'll be happy to talk with you about any work that you think needs to be done. Just remember that Collaboration team will roll off this project the end of June, so it's a zero-sum game: adding new tasks will likely require us to drop some of the existing ones. JMatazzoni (WMF) (talk) 20:09, 29 March 2018 (UTC)
- > But the judgement of our technical and design teams is that more advanced features aren't supportable with the resources available.
- @JMatazzoni (WMF) I think that is valid, but I'd like to point out that some of the existing tools of Kartographer, severely limit the communities' abilities when trying to expand upon the current feature set. (by wrapping and hiding standard leaflet interfaces in 'private' vars of objects etc.) That limits the reusability of those tools, which in turn is likely to cause the community to sidestep Kartographer at points where they want to innovate. This is especially visible in the in-ability to add layers (currently only possible for Wikivoyage).
- It is my opinion that it is important for longterm stability and success, to let go of some of that control and put trust and responsibility back to the community level and enable them to experiment and innovate upon the work of WMF. —TheDJ (Not WMF) (talk • contribs) 09:09, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
- Thanks for your input @TheDJ. Is there a particular ticket you're recommending for consideration? JMatazzoni (WMF) (talk) 17:26, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
- @TheDJ, thanks again for your note about impediments to community innovation. I'll check with the team on the issues you raise. Meanwhile, if there are any specific issues you can name—and especially any specific tickets—I promise we'll look into them. JMatazzoni (WMF) (talk) 15:32, 17 April 2018 (UTC)
- @JMatazzoni (WMF) some of them would be https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T186293
- A big part of my problem with those last few, is that we are trying to push <mapframe>, yet not supporting map frame development after this sprint. At the same time we are not allowing editors to make it more flexible and finding the best way to support other editors.
- Instead we should have generic leaflet widgets that can be used independently (even from toollabs ) and <mapframe> limitations should be provided as easily reusable warnings and restrictions. Then let people muck about and just tell them to use the easily accessible warning dialogs etc etc.. instead of trying to push everyone in a straightjacket they will just crawl out of.
- That's a better use of everyone's time. —TheDJ (Not WMF) (talk • contribs) 16:09, 17 April 2018 (UTC)
- I think you might be overestimating the purpose of this project. It is neither to "pull more people into our maps" or "trying to push <mapframe>". The only two goals of this project are:
- To ensure that Kartographer and the associated maps technology stack are stable and can be easily maintained as maps gain a wider audience.
- To accomplish the two “main wishes” named in the Community Wishlist proposal, along with as many of the other wishes as are possible in the time provided. The main wishes are T180907, “Add zoom level 19.”
- Before last year's Community Wishlist Survey, the WMF was considering killing the maps feature entirely since we didn't have the resources to properly maintain and support it. Until we have those resources, we want to keep maps as simple as possible. There is no maps team (apart from 1 part-time contractor), and the Collaboration team will have no involvement whatsoever with maps after July 1. If you can convince folks that removing the restrictions from Kartographer will make support and maintenance of maps easier, rather than more complicated, they will likely go along with your suggestions, but otherwise it's going to be a hard sell. Kaldari (talk) 15:04, 19 April 2018 (UTC)
- > I think you might be overestimating the purpose of this project.
- @Kaldari, no I think I'm well aware that I'm asking for things that won't be delivered. But I state them anyways, because if people don't mention it, we might forget we have a problem. :) —TheDJ (Not WMF) (talk • contribs) 13:48, 20 April 2018 (UTC)
- In that case, I totally support what you're saying and I hope at some point we can address that. Having the community implement their own complicated (and potentially problematic) hacks to get around the limitations of our maps implementation is clearly not ideal. Kaldari (talk) 00:28, 21 April 2018 (UTC)
- @JMatazzoni (WMF), thanks for the update! From user's perspective, it would be best to have some way of choosing the language and to avoid the hard link between the Wikipedia language and map language. Example: having the map of Paris in Russian is not terribly useful, as Latin characters are understandable for Russian speakers, and you won't find a single street name written in Russian in Paris. On the other hand, having the map of China in any non-Chinese language is essential. Ideally, I would think of a mapframe parameter that tells the software which language to use as the first choice (the rest could be done by the fall-back scheme you described). Then we could easily customize this to our needs. Atsirlin (talk) 22:30, 20 April 2018 (UTC)
- Hi @Atsirlin. We're on the same page on the idea of a language override code. Thanks for reminding me to mention it. The plan is that maps will display in the language of the wiki, unless you specify. A "lang=xx" parameter will be part of the internationalization release that you'll be able to try it out next week on testwiki. JMatazzoni (WMF) (talk) 23:07, 20 April 2018 (UTC)
- Who do we lobby to get more funding allocated to maps/ a maps team? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:13, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
- @Pigsonthewing: You can lobby me if you want; I'm the Director of Product for the Contributors team, and one of the decision makers about Foundation priorities. We're not going to fund an ongoing Maps team after June 30th because we have other things to work on that we think are more important. Wikimedia Movement Strategy process last year, particularly the focus on Knowledge Equity.
- While Maps are useful and important, building further Maps features isn't going to be a focus for us. BUT -- the good news is that the Maps-minded contributors are really good at the Community Wishlist Survey. The five months of Maps work that the Collaboration team has done this year is the direct result of the community voicing support on the Wishlist Survey in December. So, while we're not planning to fund a full-time Maps team, you'll have another chance in November to propose another Maps feature, and vote it up to the top 10. The Community Tech team works on the top 10 ideas, so that's a way to get more Maps development next year.
- Let me know if you have more questions, or if you want to talk about it more. DannyH (WMF) (talk) 00:35, 10 May 2018 (UTC)
T140209
[edit]I'm concerned that 02:21, 16 April 2018 (UTC)
- I added a note in the Phabricator task. More folks will see it there, where work is being done, than here on the talk page. Let's see if someone can comment and continue the conversation there. CKoerner (WMF) (talk) 14:15, 17 April 2018 (UTC)
- Hi @Gareth, the problem you site should be fixed, according to our tester. The ticket, T140209, says the fix should have hit wikis in March. If you are still seeing the issue on your wiki, please do let us know. If you can, please give a link to where you're seeing it.
- We're also working on the related ticket, 16:52, 19 April 2018 (UTC)
Can we have a page for stats on Internationalization and a simpler tool for name translation ?
[edit]- Hi Team,
- We are displaying only selected features like street name and place name. Can we have stats for all the languages we are supporting and number of tags to be translated ?
- Also if Map improvement team can bring in simpler tag editor only specific to street name and place name editor it will be good. iD and JOSM will not good start for Wikimedians for translation. We can reuse Nomino or some tools like this meta:User:WikedKentaur/OSM-Wikipedia_place_name_tool
- -- Naveenpf (talk) 08:05, 21 April 2018 (UTC)
- We're supporting "all" languages, not a predefined list. There are about 210 languages with more than 10 000 names in OSM. We can't do stats for the number of tags to be translated, because there's no "completed" state. OSM stores names in multiple languages, and most things will not have a name in most languages. As an example, names in North Straits Salish would only be found a small area on the Salish Sea. Pnorman (talk) 23:32, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
- I was looking for something like this 16:00, 16 May 2018 (UTC)
- Edit: missed the Meta link which is the same thing I propose, please disregard.
- "iD and JOSM will not good start for Wikimedians for translation" But the Wikimedia community can still help to increase the quality of name localisation on OSM due to the fact that Wikidata is among other things a huge database of articles in various languages about places, so the article names can be suggested through the OSM edit tools to mappers as potential localisations. OSM rightly frowns upon automated data imports, but with a human in the loop this could be very useful. Wikidata identifiers are already a commonly used field for OSM entities so it would not be hard to figure out which feature to suggest for. Arlo Barnes (talk) 23:00, 21 April 2018 (UTC)
- I think Arlo is right that there is very interesting potential here, but that you will need to consult with the OSM community on any such project. This list of OSM mailing lists might give you a good start on that.
- As to your question about how many tags need to be translated, that is, again, an OSM question. It's possible that the OSM tool 00:18, 27 April 2018 (UTC)
cy-wiki = cy
[edit]Sounds really cool if it's in Welsh (cy), and ONLY in Welsh. If the placenames and streetnames are in any other language then please do not enable. @Oergell / we have these names in Welsh in OSM format to work with (OSM will only use English in UK; sad)! Also, all placenames are in Welsh on Wikidata. ~ Llywelyn2000 (talk) 02:36, 25 April 2018 (UTC)
- Hi @Llywelyn2000. Thanks for your question. Here is the list of language fallbacks. I'm sorry that the list is in codes instead of human language names, but as you say, the code for Welsh is "cy", and I don't see an entry here for that. So it appears that your compatriots feel as you do, and that no fallback language has been defined for Welsh.
- Which means that you should be safe, for maps of Wales at any rate: on Welsh Wikipedia such maps should show labels in Welsh only.
- Maps of other countries (on Welsh Wikipedia) will fall back to the local language when a Welsh label isn't available. Or you can add Welsh labels in OpenStreetMap, and then those labels will take precedence. (I plan to write a mini-tutorial soon for Wikipedians who want to add labels in OSM; I'll post a notice to the project page). Let me know how it works out. Pob Iwc! (with apologies if I messed that up) JMatazzoni (WMF) (talk) 04:49, 25 April 2018 (UTC)
- Hi. Thanks for coming back, so quickly. You say: you should be safe, for maps of Wales at any rate: on Welsh Wikipedia such maps should show labels in Welsh only. - from where would the placenames come from? You should be safe isn't a certainty, and therefore not acceptable. As I say, Welsh placenames are NOT available on OSM; I also said 'OSM will only use English in UK; sad'. What this means is that Welsh place names are not allowed on OSM., so your video is not relevant in our case.
- As I said (and I repeat) we have these names in Welsh in OSM format to work with. As we (@Oergell) have a db, we could upload to Wikidata. Can we get the placenames onto the map from WD?
- Also, we on cy-wiki, like many others, use the original languages, not languages imposed by outsiders eg all placenames in Asturia are in the Asturian language (not Spanish), all places in Catalunia will be in Catalan (not Spanish), all places in Scotland are in Scottish Gaelic (not English). Before this map is enabled we need assurance that the map will show these native languages, not imposed languages.
- Thanks again. Llywelyn2000 (talk) 08:35, 26 April 2018 (UTC)
- Hi, @Llywelyn2000. I'm sorry, but I'm not sure I understand.
- > Welsh place names are not allowed on OSM.
- There are not many items with labels defined specifically in Welsh, but it does seem that OSM contributors can add Welsh tags to items. Perhaps I misunderstand, but what do you mean by "not allowed"?
- This is complicated. OSM's "name:" tag is not clear. There is no way to know what the language being used for "name:" is - in any language, much less Welsh. :/
- The way Wikimedia maps have implemented languages is described more on the help page. We try to respect the language defined on the wiki where the map appears (Welsh). If that is not possible, because the data is not in OSM, we then use language fallbacks (none on Welsh Wikipedia, right?). If there are still no labels, then the language of the territory mapped is used. We are limited in what we can do as the information from OSM is incomplete and under constant improvement. Similar to Wikimedia projects! :)
- I hope this helps clarify things. If you have questions, please ask. If you still feel like the Welsh Wikipedia would not want maps at all I have a small favor. Could you please help us by building consensus on the project around this subject? A discussion with the community would help us feel more confident making the decision either way. Welsh Wikipedia is smaller community, so I hope this isn't too much to ask. CKoerner (WMF) (talk) 14:40, 26 April 2018 (UTC)
- Perhaps it will help to look at an example. This links shows a map of Wales centering around Caerdydd (Cardiff) test2 .)
- If you scroll left on the map, you'll see that Iwerddon is the name given for Ireland. That's because OpenStreetMap volunteers have added that Welsh name to the OSM database. If you scroll to the right, the UK is similarly labeled Deyrnas Unedig, though many other names have fallen back to the local language, English.
- So, @Llywelyn2000, if you'd like to see the map of the Deyrnas Unedig fully in Welsh, then you can, on Welsh wikis or for any map you create using lang="cy". You simply need to add more cy place names for the UK (or anywhere else) in OSM (@CKoerner (WMF) and I ware working on a Help page to make this process more understndable for Wikipedians). I hope that helps. JMatazzoni (WMF) (talk) 16:47, 26 April 2018 (UTC)
- WHOW! i've edited maybe 35% of the OSM interface into Welsh over the years but have been unable to find the cy option! I was told that it wasn't allowed! How does the ordinary reader access it?
- This is great news, and i'm certain that the community will be very happy! I'm still waiting for my friend to come back as he has (as I mentioned) other OSM-ready files - mainly road names.
- Can we also make batch uploads with databases eg upload the Asturian names for places in Asturias, Gaelic names for places in Scotland - to correspond with the article names which are always in the original language. Llywelyn2000 (talk) 19:50, 26 April 2018 (UTC)
- My last paragraph (batch uploads): this would be very easy on Wikidata, using QuickStatements e.g. for all placenames in Britany, use Breton words (rather than newer French). So the Welsh name = the Breton name.
- I also note that OSM uses UN recognised states (so political!), rather than any other method. Cy-wiki, being un-political, recognises Scotland as being a country as well as being part of the UK, and therefore the name Scotland would need to be in bold (like the Isle of Man), and same with Britany, Catalonia and the Basque Country. Otherwise, it looks good! Llywelyn2000 (talk) 20:23, 26 April 2018 (UTC)
- > How does the ordinary reader access it?
- I'm sure your interest in enriching the OSM data set will be most welcome! If you go to OpenStreetMap.org and search for Caerdydd, Wales, you'll find an entry for "City: Cardiff...." Clicking on that will bring you to this page, for the Cardiff "node". If you look on the left you'll see the list of multilingual names, including the one for "cy".
- Adding more multilingual names one-by-one is pretty straightforward using the OSM native editor. I mean to write some Help about this and can't cover it here, but the only real trick is in making sure you've found the right object—in this case the "city" "node"—as opposed to the city boundary line, administrative unit, city hall, etc. (Hint: once you're zoomed in enough and have entered the editor, you can use search to find the "city" or "node".)
- > Can we also make batch uploads with databases?
- That's a question for the OSM community. I've been told that they are sensitive about Wikimedia users coming in with bots and batch uploads, as they have had bad experiences in the past. So you'll want to consult with the OSM users about this idea. Here is the 22:55, 26 April 2018 (UTC)
- "the only real trick is in making sure you've found the right object—in this case the city 'node'—as opposed to the city boundary line, administrative unit, city hall, etc"
- I had always seen municipal boundaries as relations, but it seems a center node is the consensus: 21:50, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
- Crucially, we display labels for center nodes but not for municipal boundaries etc (as far as I know). In many places OSM has both a center node and a boundary relation for the same city, but only the nodes' names actually end up appearing on our maps. Roan Kattouw (WMF) (talk) 21:54, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
- Thanks. Maybe my first question wasn't clear. I understand how to edit a node. The bit that hits me is how does a reader turn on the Welsh placenames? I've just opened a firefox web page and searched OSM; it opened the English interface with English placenames - OSM really should work out my location and given me an option (Welsh, English or other lang) - but my point is this - how do does the ordinary reader change language?
- Batch upload - is Sophox also a sensitive matter?
- Re: So you'll want to consult with the OSM users about this idea. I prefer keeping this discussion in one place, thanks.
- UN Recognised States - you have no solution to this? 'Cymru' ('Wales' - which has been a country for 1,500 years!) isn't even on the map of Wales. That's really political, and is not in line with Wikipedia - even English Wikipedia - look at Wales:Talk page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wales
- So at the moment we have two major stumbling blocks:1. Native placenames in other countries such as the Basque country; second OSM is too political (uses only UN recognised states). These are not in line with Wikimedia thinking on diversity or the cy-wiki users. Llywelyn2000 (talk) 04:44, 27 April 2018 (UTC)
- OSM does not show localized names on its own maps. As far as we know, WMF's map server will be the first one to show localized names. When viewing maps on a WMF wiki, they will be displayed in the language of the wiki they are viewed on (so maps on cywiki will be in Welsh), unless you use syntax like
<mapframe lang="nl" ...>to force a specific language (which is what I did here to make some demo maps). - As for the UN-recognized states issue: that's an issue with OSM, which is beyond our control, as OSM has its own community that makes these determinations and we use their data. However, we are working on a new map style that, among other things, will display labels for things like states, provinces and constituent countries; so once that update is out (no timeline for that yet, unfortunately), the labels for Wales, Scotland, Catalunya, etc will appear.
- As for "native placenames in other countries such as the Basque country", that also depends on what the OSM data says. Every node in OSM has a
nameattribute, which is the primary/local name, plus attributes for translated names likename:en,name:cy, etc. Our maps try to display the label in the chosen language (i.e. on cywiki we'll showname:cy), and if that doesn't exist we'll fall back on thenameattribute. That means that for places in the Basque country, we'll display whatever is in thenameattribute (if they don't havename:cy, I'm assuming most of them don't). Whether that is the Basque name or the Spanish name depends on what OSM's policies are, and I'm not familiar with those. I took a 18:20, 27 April 2018 (UTC) - Many thanks Roan. P1 WMF's map server will be the first one to show localized names. - I think this is an extraordinary step in the correct direction. In my opening gambit I did mention the fact that OSM does not show localized names when I said (OSM will only use English in UK; sad). Thanks everybody for this giant step towards conserving the rich diversity of this little planet of ours.
- P2 If there's a layer of additional info on the way, as you say, then that will go a long way; do you have a link please? This is good.
- P3 The double-labeled / bilingual placenames in the Basque Country look good, and as long as they remain bilingual I see no problem.
- I'll now go back to the Welsh community with a recommendation to accept, on the condition that point 2 above is confirmed (link please). Llywelyn2000 (talk) 05:08, 28 April 2018 (UTC)
- For more information about the new style, see 19:37, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
- "OSM will only use English in UK" Really? What's this, then: https://openstreetmap.cymru/ ? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:09, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
- This OSM mailing list thread is relevant (it includes both Welsh examples and those for other bi-lingual areas):
- 21:23, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
- @Pigsonthewing https://openstreetmap.cymru/ is a direct response to the fact that "OSM will only use English in UK"; it's a Welsh Government funded project to ensure that a Welsh place-names open map is available. Until mapframe was offered a few weeks ago, we were going to use openstreetmap.cymru on cy-wiki. Now we have a choice.
- Pigsonthewing - thanks for the link; yes, very relevant. (NB Keep us informed on including Wikidata IDs in OSM, please.)
- @JMatazzoni (WMF) - your link showing "a map of Wales centering around Caerdydd (Cardiff)" 05:51, 10 May 2018 (UTC)
- Re broken link: our apologies, that was a temporary link for testing that doesn't work anymore. Now that internationalized maps have been rolled out as the default experience, you can view the same map at 05:55, 10 May 2018 (UTC)
- No, it's a rendering of the Welsh place names that are part of OpenStreetMap. In other words, for suitable places in the United Kingdom, OSM is using Welsh. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:15, 10 May 2018 (UTC)
- Labels are what we render, and names are what OpenStreetMap stores. OSM has been including Welsh names for a long time. name:cy=Caerdydd has been on https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/738885245/history for 8 years, and probably was on the previous node.
- The name tag should be in the local language. If you want to discuss what what that should be and you're in a multi-lingual area, you need to discuss it with your local OSM community. It's an OSM decision, not a wikimedia one. Pnorman (talk) 23:17, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
Defining fallbacks
[edit]I tried the new features in testwiki and they are really cool! While trying and after reading the comments below, a simple question arises:
Is there any chance for, default or per wiki, arbitrary language fallbacks? As an example: english are not related with greek language. But greek readers when greek labels are missing on a map of China, would prefer to read english labels rather than chinese labels.
lang="en" would not be a solution as all labels would be in english.
To my understanding the feature exists, so it is only a matter of choice (or policy?). Geraki (talk) 07:01, 26 April 2018 (UTC)
- Thanks for the question @Geraki. Would you want Greek maps in general to fall back on English? That could be done pretty easily, though it might require some kind of community consensus.
- Know, though, that the fallback list for maps is separate from the general language fallback list for the wikis, which governs things like what languages interface messages get shown in. At the moment, the lists have the same fallback values. But my point is you could change the map-specific list without changing the main language fallback list. So changing the map list is probably not too hard. JMatazzoni (WMF) (talk) 18:00, 26 April 2018 (UTC)
- Yes, if the technical team is ok with that, the community consensus will be certain. I will raise the matter for discussion on elwiki. Geraki (talk) 18:09, 26 April 2018 (UTC)
- When you have a consensus, we will be happy to make the change.
- At that time, if you know how, please fill out a Phabricator ticket and tag it to "Collaboration-Feature-Rollouts (Collaboration-Maps)". Or you can ping me.
- The question of how to change fallbacks is bound to come up from other volunteers and languages. Perhaps @CKoerner (WMF) can comment on what process he'd recommend for such a change request (knowing, as I say above, that this is a map-specific change and would NOT change the general language fallbacks)? JMatazzoni (WMF) (talk) 18:15, 26 April 2018 (UTC)
- The issue could be a bit more complex. For example, a Luxembourger will want to see name:fr over name:de in France and Luxembourg, but not in Germany, and not everywhere in Belgium. Stereo (talk) 09:00, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
- Hi @Stereo. Yes, these issues can get tricky. There is good info and strategies on this in my posts about Should your wiki change its map fallback language? and also OSM name data quirks and the uses of lang="local". JMatazzoni (WMF) (talk) 17:42, 16 July 2018 (UTC)
Potential Problem
[edit]I have to warn you of a potential big problem on hiwiki. The map shows different map than Indian government map. The problem arises from the fact that both china and India claim that place nearby India-China Kashmir border, so you should better show both place to avoid a big conflict. Please take immediate action, I will be at your disposal for translation if required/needed. Goodluck!
See this comment by an IP address.
- Thanks @Navinsingh133 for the feedback. Let me check with the team responsible for maps and see what the situation is on the work regarding disputed boarders 14:15, 26 April 2018 (UTC)
- You are welcome! I believe marking as Disputed Border will solve the problem before getting out of hand, after all, this is what Google does. Navinsingh133 (talk) 14:20, 26 April 2018 (UTC)
- With the new style coming out, we'll be rendering disputed borders, which should address userconcerns. It may not address government concerns, as the Indian government has been known to want to show only what they consider the border to be, not showing it as disputed at all, a view which doesn't reflect the situation on the ground, and is inherently incompatible with showing a map to users around the world. Pnorman (talk) 02:58, 29 April 2018 (UTC)
Wikimaps UG Hangout April: Thank you
[edit]Thank you @JMatazzoni (WMF), @CKoerner (WMF) and @Sbisson (WMF) for your participation in our Wikimaps User Group hangout yesterday. Your work and communication with the community is very appreciated.
Your engagement, efforts, and communication is resulting in new(and old) ideas about events and community efforts. Let's see where it takes us :-) Abbe98 (talk) 07:57, 27 April 2018 (UTC)
Maps usage on Commons
[edit]Hi. Just a quick note to mention that the amount of maps being shown on Commons (as opposed to being linked to) is increasing at the moment as I roll out commons:Template:Wikidata Infobox, for example see: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Five_hundred_meter_Aperture_Spherical_Telescope I'm hoping that doesn't cause any performance issues. It might be an interesting test case for multilingual maps (do they auto-change based on the language setting on commons?), and if by any chance you fancy working on improving the integration with Wikidata then that would be appreciated (at the moment we're using a lua/templateparser hack, and it is lacking features like auto-determining the zoom level to use)! Mike Peel (talk) 13:33, 27 April 2018 (UTC)
- Hi @Mike Peel. I'm glad you asked about using mapframe in templates. I think this will be a really powerful use case for internationalized map. The answer to your question is that the maps will display in the content language of whatever wiki they are on. (Or they will attempt to, subject to availability of multilingual name data in OpenStreetMap for the language and location.)
- You ask about the 'language setting on commons"; that would be the interface language preference, I assume. Since maps are content, they conform to the wiki's content setting, not the interface language preference. I hope that answers your question. JMatazzoni (WMF) (talk) 16:32, 27 April 2018 (UTC)
- Thanks! By the "language setting on commons", I meant the language selector that's at the top of the page (here also), to the left of the username. If you change that on Commons, then the infobox changes to show info in the chosen language - will the map do that as well? Mike Peel (talk) 18:07, 27 April 2018 (UTC)
- > If you change that on Commons, then the infobox changes to show info in the chosen language
- Ahhh. I didn't know about that Commons-specific feature. I think the answer is that the map won't change on Commons in this way. Although the language selector changes the display in the way you have pointed out, the underlying content language of Commons remains English, and I'm told the map will respect that. (Also, I seem to have misunderstood the purpose of your infobox: I thought it was being stored on commons for use on articles (about telescopes) on different wikis. But I see now that this info box is meant to live on Commons.) JMatazzoni (WMF) (talk) 20:09, 27 April 2018 (UTC)
- OK. Out of curiosity, what would happen if we fed the lang parameter with the reader's language choice? That's possible with Lua. It might confuse the system/caching though?
- Yes, the infobox is commons-specific, it's there to provide basic background info on all topics in all languages. It exclusively uses info from Wikidata. It would work easily enough on other wikis if anyone wants to do that, though. Mike Peel (talk) 23:15, 27 April 2018 (UTC)
- I suspect there would be caching issues with that, but if you're interested you could try it out on testwiki and see what happens (or test it on Commons once internationalized maps have been rolled out there). Roan Kattouw (WMF) (talk) 20:37, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
- On the client side caching shouldn't be an issue, because of the different query parameter values. Query parameters can even be used perfectly fine for cache busting...
- On the backend I assume Cassandra cached tiles are separated as different Kartotherian sources, Vanish does caching based on the entire URL just as web browsers. Abbe98 (talk) 08:36, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
- Yes, all those things will be fine. The caching issues I'm worried about are in MediaWiki's parser cache. That might not respond well to a mapframe tag with a dynamic lang attribute, and might try to reuse cached HTML that was generated for a different language. Roan Kattouw (WMF) (talk) 21:50, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
- I hadn't spotted that the multi-language support had been switched on until now ... I've added language-switching into the sandbox, which is currently demo'd at https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Lovell_Telescope (try switching to Russian!).
- I can roll that out to the main version - as long as it won't break Commons? Mike Peel (talk) 19:21, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
- @Mike Peel ooh, this is cool, and it works with ULS switching (as well as ?uselang=xx parameter) as well. Super cool!
- So, we actively chose against making map language follow user (interface) language, for various technical and product reasons, but -- and @JMatazzoni (WMF) and @Roan Kattouw (WMF) can correct me if I'm forgetting something -- that is more relevant for language-specific wikis. It might actually not be as relevant set of issues for a multilingual wiki like Commons.
- I think that if that usage stays on Commons only, it should be safe. Just to verify (I remember talking through some of the technical limitations with the parser) @Roan Kattouw (WMF) am I missing something? The fact that switching interface language seems to display the map with the interface language seems to suggest that technical limitation is not as limiting on Commons. Moriel Schottlender (talk) 20:16, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
- @Mike Peel that should be fine. The infobox already localizes itself to the user language, so whatever parser cache problems that causes are already there and won't be made worse by this. Roan Kattouw (WMF) (talk) 21:27, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
- OK, thanks for the reassurances, 22:57, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
Map translations: More detailed instructions for translators
[edit]A user reported on English Wikipedia08:02, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
- Good idea @Evad37. I've been thinking the same thing, and have created a ticket to create a specialized Wikimedian Help doc on adding names to OpenStreetMap T193656.
- One special circumstance for Wikimedians I can mention here: Not all data on OSM is shown in our maps. E.g., as I mention in the Special Update you cite, if you add the name of a restaurant, it won't show up, since we don't show restaurants, hotels, tourist attractions, parking structures, dry cleaners and many other things that are in OSM. A good rule of thumb here is that if the name shows up, albeit in another language, on our maps, then you can rename it. If the name isn't shown on our maps in any language, then entering it in OSM probably won't have an effect—unless it is for a class of object that you know we show, like a town or road.
- It's also good to know that it can take a day or two for the OSM data to convey to our site, so you have to wait to see your results. JMatazzoni (WMF) (talk) 17:26, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
Usage in taxoboxes
[edit]No idea where one should raise issues - Please see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Maplink#Using_mapframes_/_maplink_nicely_in_taxoboxes
- Flat circular markers of specifiable radius centered without shadows for point distributions.
- Should be possible to generated rounded curves on maps from a set of points in lines or polygons - See example at https://runkit.com/roblabs/bezier-spline-from-geojson-linestring
- nice to have maps fit neatly into the taxoboxes without having to specify widths or heights
Shyamal (talk) 12:39, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
Wikidata IDs in OSM
[edit]I and others have been working for some time, to add Wikidata IDs to objects in OSM - both as a 1:1 relation, and for things like brand:wikidata=Q38076 (Q38076 is the item for McDonald's). See https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:wikidata for details and more examples.
It would be good to hear, please, how such tags are, or might be, used by this initiative - there's no mention of Wikidata on Map improvements 2018.
It would also be good to educate our fellow Wikimedians about this,and to encourage them to add - with due care - more Wikidata IDs to OSM. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:19, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
- I'll second you points.
- One tool that would be very useful in linking OSM and WikiData/Wikipedia would be the hosting of a global instance of http://geodati.fmach.it/gfoss_geodata/osm/wtosm/it_IT/index.html It would help in assessing completeness and provide a lower barrier to broader participation in OSM to Wikidata linking.
- I'm currently working on an import of 15:11, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
- Heya,
- The Maps improvements 2018 project has a set scope and time frame. Improving and enhancing the knowledge of and use of Wikidata IDs, unfortunately, is not part of this work. However, Joe (the PM for the project), myself and Stephane (a engineer) were recently invited to have a chat with the Wikimaps user group. One of the topics discussed was around what the user group can do to work within communities to promote and encourage work like you describe. @Jeffme might be able to share a link to the notes from the meeting if you want more information.
- I can only speak for myself, but I'm hoping to work with some folks from the group at the upcoming Hackathon and beyond to provide advice on how to spread the word to more people. One of the ideas was to see if there could be a Wikimedia/OSM event (like a hackathon) in the future. Reaching out to that group might be a way to combine powers. :)
- Related, and some folks are already aware, but there is 15:39, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
- Unfortunately I won't be at the hackathon, but I'd be very interested in being involved in OSM/Wikimedia collaborations - and especially work on including Wikidata IDs in OSM - going forward. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:13, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
- Could we have an update on discussions at the hackathon, please? (A pointer to blog post, etherpad or similar would suffice.) Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:11, 22 May 2018 (UTC)
Limitations
[edit]This is awesome.
However, are there limitations? I can’t seem to get rivers to show up as geolines. Roads work fine. Is that a limitation? Vanished user 09a18a8c3ed303b15ad9aa4fe245c66c (talk) 02:50, 6 May 2018 (UTC)
- It's hard to say without a wikidata id so I can look at what you're trying to display, but my guess is that the wikidata tag is on the OSM relation, not the ways. OSM type=waterway relations are not imported into the default osm2pgsql database. This should change when we roll out the style improvements, which include a database schema change. Pnorman (talk) 17:32, 8 May 2018 (UTC)
- The wikidata ID is Q1137387. Yes, it’s a type=waterway relation.
- Are you rolling out the style improvements? Vanished user 09a18a8c3ed303b15ad9aa4fe245c66c (talk) 01:29, 10 May 2018 (UTC)
- The OSM object is https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/4638229, which will not be in a standard osm2pgsql database.
- The development on style stuff is done, we just need to get it into production. Pnorman (talk) 23:19, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
Norwegian (nb)
[edit]Hi. I got a mail from one of the Norwegian OSM-mappers. He/she have found a bug in the map for lang=nb.
I have made two examples in the test wiki where things fails.
https://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Haros/map_in_lang_nb
Note that for Norwegian, nb and nn, the language codes nb and nn shall usually not be used in OSM, but the code no that contains both. I think that definition by OSM is correct and far less error-prone than attempting to have both nb and nn defined. From the Wikipedias however, you should expect to receive lang="nb"and lang="nn" Haros (talk) 20:04, 6 May 2018 (UTC)
16:50, 11 May 2018 (UTC)
- Yes I could enter a name for nb, but that would be against the rules for how names in Norwegian shall be given as defined by OpenStreetMap.
- As long as the name is identical in nb and nn, none of those shall be given, only the code no shall be used. And the name for Sweden is Sverige in both nb and nn. There is indeed an entry for no with that name.
- The fallback for nb should at least have no present, and ahead of nn.
- Similar should be for nn.
- (I just wrote about this in Tinget on no-wiki.) Haros (talk) 17:20, 11 May 2018 (UTC)
- Here is what OSM says on their wiki on this.
- 17:26, 11 May 2018 (UTC)
- Here are the actual fallback settings. You can see that nb falls back on nn, and nn falls back on nb. But there is no fallback for "no".
- We added some information to the Kartographer Help page to explain how you can change your fallback settings. You should get community consensus, but it shouldn't be too hard, since you can change your maps fallbacks without changing the general fallback languages for the wiki. (The lists are mostly identical now, but are separate.) So it should be require less convincing.
- As long as you're thinking about changing your fallbacks, you might want to consider including a language like English, which has a lot of OSM multilingual names, in your fallback list, since Norwegian isn't in even the top 25 languages for OSM multilingual data. That should make maps of foreign places look more readable. E.g., here is China with the 18:02, 11 May 2018 (UTC)
- As I wrote above, I just wrote on Tinget about this. That was in order to establish a consensus on this. In the meanwhile I have used lang="no".
- I'm not sure how I could utilize lang="local". Perhaps checking that Wikidata has a P17=Q20 (i.e. country is Norway)?
- I'm aware of the China problem. Looks much better for Korea and Japan for some reason I have not yet discovered.
- The fallback for no should probably be nb,nn by the way, as the majority uses nb. Haros (talk) 18:25, 11 May 2018 (UTC)
- I've filed a patch to set the following fallbacks:
nb: Firstno, thennnnn: Firstno, thennbno: Firstnb, thennn
- We'll get that rolled out some time next week. Roan Kattouw (WMF) (talk) 19:10, 11 May 2018 (UTC)
- Thanks, that will solve the main problem.
- I will seek local consensus on no-wiki for the fallback to en and add a task for that. There cannot be too many cases like Florence, Vienna etc, where we will need to add no names to the OSM.
- This will be a very good feature to have, once the special cases have been solved. Haros (talk) 03:08, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
16:50, 11 May 2018 (UTC)Tile refresh frequency
[edit]- How frequently are the osm-intl tiles rerendered to reflect changes to OpenStreetMap? Map improvements 2018#April 18, 2018, Special Update on Map Internationalization says it currently takes up to 48 hours, which I take to mean the time it takes for the extract or planet diff to be pulled in, as opposed to the tile rendering schedule. 20:18, 11 May 2018 (UTC)
- Sorry for the late answer (vacation). The process is as follow:
- 1) upgrade our local copy of OSM (postgresql database) every day (we are planning to increase this frequency)
- 2) regenerate vector tiles for any tile that has changed, triggered by the above update, but can take a few hours to complete
- 3) raster tiles are then generated on request, from the vector tiles and cached for up to 24h
- There is no public ways to trigger steps 1) and 2). You can always bypass the cache by adding a dummy parameter to the URL to test if the issue is in 3).
- All that being said, an update not showing after 15 days definitely sounds like a bug on our side! Could you please open a ticket on phabricator and tag it with "Maps"? Thanks! GLederrey (WMF) (talk) 15:51, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
- We follow the standard practice of only regenerating high-zoom tiles based on updates. I've created 18:39, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
- I also ran a manual run to regenerate z0-z9 in both data centers, which should result in those tiles being fixed. Pnorman (talk) 18:00, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
- 04:42, 26 May 2018 (UTC)
- Interesting question @Mxn. I'm pinging @Sbisson (WMF), who may be able to help you with an answer. JMatazzoni (WMF) (talk) 20:49, 11 May 2018 (UTC)
- It's been over a month since the tiles were manually regenerated, but the edit still doesn't show up at z9. Would you mind taking another look at this, Pnorman? Thanks! Minh Nguyễn 💬 15:56, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
- This is mostly fixed now, but 06:27, 12 August 2018 (UTC)
- As my contract with WMF has finished, I'm not responsible for this anymore, and without the new style being deployed, the updated scripts aren't being redone. I suggest you open a phab ticket so the issue doesn't get dropped. Pnorman (talk) 19:44, 16 August 2018 (UTC)
- Hello @Mxn, we have worked on this issue for a while, as you can see here:
- - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T194787
- We are also working on some related tasks considering caching improvements, which I believe is the issue now:
- - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T159977
- I would reinforce what Pnorman said and ask you to create a phab ticket with the issue and detailed descriptions so we can track it.
- Thank you! MSantos (WMF) (talk) 18:09, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
- Thanks, I opened 17:48, 18 August 2018 (UTC)
Current location
[edit]Is there a page for requesting new functions to the map functionality. Specifically the one one use on Wikivoyage when you click on a listing number? Or is this the page. What I am looking for is the possibility to see my current position. As this is a travel site, mobile usage is important. Traveler100 (talk) 16:12, 16 May 2018 (UTC)
- Hi @Traveler100. This project, Map Improvements 2018, is coming to an end, so this page isn't a good place. Here is the new page for discussing Wikimedia maps developments. But in all honesty, I don't think that developers there will be taking requests for a lot of new features. You can also make such requests in Phabricator. Here is the workboard with 21:09, 14 June 2018 (UTC)
Missing controls
[edit]Is there a plan to include the zoom and pan capabilities within mapframe? At present they only appear in preview mode, which seems a bit pointless. Similarly the really helpful scale bar also vanishes when I publish changes. Are they likely to make it into the final vesion? RobinLeicester (talk) 00:13, 22 May 2018 (UTC)
- Hi Robin. Best would be if you could include a URL, so we can have a look at your specific issue.
- But in general, I think what you're describing is this: most Wikipedias are configured so that the mapframe map embedded on the page is not dynamic. It's a graphic, which means you can't pan or zoom it, as you say. I think this is done to reduce page load times (or server load?). To get pan and zoom, you click on the map, which pops up the dynamic version. On Wikivoyages, by contrast, the dynamic version is embedded in the page. In theory we could reconfigure your wiki to show dynamic maps, but I don't know what the impact would be, especially if it's one of the larger wikis. Perhaps @Catrope might know?
- The missing map scale gauge is something I hadn't noticed before. Thanks for pointing it out. I can clearly see what you mean on these test pages: 18:56, 22 May 2018 (UTC)
- I was about to ask whether zoom and latitude/longitude values could be accessed while in editing preview in en:mapframe, and discovered that it already works on a right click. Great work ... now the interactive mode all makes sense to me. Really useful feature for setting up a map, which probably needs talking up in the documentation. Thanks. RobinLeicester (talk) 19:59, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
- >...discovered that it already works on a right click.
- I'd love to document the feature you're referring to but I'm not following. Can you take me through step-by-step? Are you talking about using Visual Editor with maps, perhaps? JMatazzoni (WMF) (talk) 18:36, 25 May 2018 (UTC)
- No, it is within the normal traditional editing preview. If I have understood phabricator correctly, it is the feature described at https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T129875 to 'Show current coordinates & zoom in edit preview & VE mode'
- The value lies in the fact that you might add a mapframe knowing just the coordinates of a feature. However, that simply plonks the map centred on that feature. You can then preview the map, and then adjust the zoom and position to show the segment of map that best displays what is wanted, and then right click in the centre of the frame and copy the coordinate details, ready to paste back into the template. RobinLeicester (talk) 20:44, 25 May 2018 (UTC)
- Yes, the ability to refine map placement interactively is a really nice feature of the Visual Editor maps interface. Thanks for mentioning that. I'm pinging @CKoerner (WMF) to bring this idea to his attention, since he is writing the VE section of the maps help. JMatazzoni (WMF) (talk) 21:43, 4 June 2018 (UTC)
- There are complaints on bgwiki that these static maps (i.e. you have to click to be able to zoom in/out) are inconvenient. We previously had a system with static switchable maps of different scale—settlement, region, country—that was apparently intuitive enough as the maps were arranged as clickable tabs (16:00, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Sure, that'd be fine. We only really need static maps on large wikis, but as a first step we just enabled them on all Wikipedias. I'll make the bgwiki maps dynamic, and then I'll see if I can figure out a way to find out which wikis are large and small for this purpose that's more scientific than looking at who complains on this talk page :) Roan Kattouw (WMF) (talk) 18:52, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Wow, that's great, thank you so much, Roan! My colleagues will surely be very happy :) — Luchesar • T/C 19:20, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- This is done now. However existing maps won't update immediately, they'll only change from static to dynamic when the page is edited or purged. For testing, I purged the 23:20, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Perfect! The maps are much more convenient and useful now. Many thanks for the quick reaction again, Roan! — Luchesar • T/C 08:58, 6 July 2018 (UTC)
Map with localised labels of Africa
[edit]I am looking for a map of Africa with countries and capitals. What map to use? Thanks, ~ GerardM (talk) 07:40, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
- Hi @GerardM. It seems like you're asking for something like this map. It's in Russian, but that can be changed to any language you prefer by switching the lang="ru" parameter (e.g., to "en" for English).
- You'll notice that this map doesn't show the capitals until you zoom. That's because the map deems that there isn't room for them. It's important to understand that what gets shown on a map is determined by a number of factors, including the overall dimensions of the map, the size of the individual country and the zoom level. I.e., if you zoom out, you won't see capitals; if you zoom in, you'll see the capitals but maybe not for the whole continent—unless your map is quite large.
- Some time in the coming months, a change to our map styles will make our maps a lot smarter about what they show at what zoom level. More on this in coming weeks and months. JMatazzoni (WMF) (talk) 18:17, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
- I want to use it smaller on the right hand side of a page. How do I do that.. eg on 18:49, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
- You can set the dimensions, location and zoom level to whatever you like. Here is a Help page that explains the full use of the mapframe function, which embeds maps—or you can just copy and adapt the code from my example.
- But, as I say, with a small map, it's unlikely that it will display all the country and capital labels. Know, however, that if users click on the map, they will get a popup with a much bigger version that they can zoom and pan to see what they are interested in. JMatazzoni (WMF) (talk) 18:54, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
- Ok, I have added the map on the Yoruba page mentioned above. :) Is there a way to have the map fill a page completely? I think as an example it is what shows the power best. Thanks! GerardM (talk) 19:18, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
- > Is there a way to have the map fill a page completely?
- Yes, you can specify the width in terms of a page percentage. E.g., like this: width="100%" height="30%" Or, I think you can even mix the styles, like this: width="90%" height="500". Good luck! JMatazzoni (WMF) (talk) 19:48, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
Please don't encourage adding transliteration to OSM
[edit]- Great to see the publicity around this project.
- OSM has a long-standing community consensus that transliteration does not belong in the OSM database: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Names#Avoid_transliteration . There are concerns that this project could encourage people to add transliterated names.
- Could you clarify your instructional/publicity materials to emphasise this?
- Alternatives are: adding a Wikidata id to the OSM object, so it can be crossreferenced to a set of transliterated names in Wikidata; or machine-generated on-the-fly transliteration (this has been successfully carried out by the German OSM community for many years now). 46.208.184.135 (talk) 12:26, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
- Hey IP, could you help me understand the concerns a little better?
- We've been telling folks that if there isn't a label in their local language on Wikimedia Maps to go to OSM to add a label in their local language (like "name:fr=Foo"). No encouragement in either direction regarding bulk automation. Which, if I'm reading the linked article correctly is the largest concern? How might we better update our documentation here on MW.org to make it more apparent that transliteration is a nuanced thing in the OSM community? It's a wiki, feel free to edit directly or make a suggestion here. :)
- The Wikimedia Foundation is not doing any active promotion of maps as the project is winding down and entering ongoing maintenance (no new features for the time being). In fact, in short time this page will be marked as historical and ongoing discussions will encouraged to take place on Wikimedia Maps' talk page. I say this to alleviate any immediate feelings of concern and suggest that we perhaps work on adding documentation to that page going forward.
- Edit: I just now saw the comments on 15:56, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
- The comments on the post put it well. Thanks for your understanding. 46.208.184.162 (talk) 09:05, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- My personal opinion is that data should be useful. OpenStreetMap is open source and I am totally in favour to have all the names available as they are known in any language. This allows us to provide maps we need in all our Wikipedias. When Wikidata and OpenStreetMap are linked on the object level, then it is irrelevant where useful labels are kept. You can avoid transliteration as much as you like and we still have the functionality that is required. That is the beauty of collaboration and that is the beauty of open source. Thanks GerardM (talk) 14:17, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
- Hi Gerard, that's fine, but your personal opinion doesn't trump OSM best practice when it comes to entering data to OSM. It's very likely that OSM contributors will revert widespread additions of transliterated names. Encouraging people to add data which will only be reverted doesn't help anyone.
- OSM wouldn't be so irresponsible as to ask thousands of its contributors to break Wikipedia rules. Please don't encourage thousands of your contributors to break OSM rules. Thank you. 46.208.184.135 (talk) 15:52, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
- Hoi, the point of this best practice is that it served you well. You want at least a situation that is as good as you have it now. What you have to consider is what use Wikimedia will make of your data. It is likely to become the single biggest usage of OSM. What I want is to consider options, see how we can make things work. On your servers on ours, the point should be that we play nicely together.
- I am not interested in a public conversation with you, I am interested in talking about the needs that I perceive. When you care to hear from me as much as I like to hear from you, I am sure you will contact me. GerardM (talk) 16:37, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
- > It is likely to become the single biggest usage of OSM
- Given that Facebook, Apple, Snapchat, and many others use OSM, I doubt it. Please have a little more humility and respect for the settled opinion of the OSM community rather than trying to bully us with your self-perceived importance. 46.208.184.162 (talk) 09:05, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
- Gerard, did you read the link that the IP user included in their first post? Here it is again: osmwiki:names#Avoid transliteration. The most relevant part is:
- As well, many transliterated names frequently have been imported as is from Wikipedia (or Wikidata) for naming their articles, but the names may have been chosen quite arbitrarily on these wikis. It's not needed to import these transliterated names in OSM: we can just link to a single Wikidata entry or a single Wikipedia article in a single language, preferably the main language used locally, in order to find the other articles.
- So data *is* "being useful": the purely geographic and *on-the-ground verifiable* data is being useful in the OSM database, and the encyclopedic and otherwise cultural relations are being useful in Wikidata. Arlo Barnes (talk) 20:24, 30 June 2018 (UTC)
- Arlo Barnes, you are not saying anything that was not said before. You do not add a thing and thereby make things worse for your point. Talk to me privately, not publicly is what I said. I will not engage in any argument in this way as it is not productive. I only get a repetition that does not improve the argument. GerardM (talk) 00:11, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
I filed a bug but no one's there to look at it
[edit]Hi. I've put 16:41, 7 July 2018 (UTC)
- Hi @Jc86035. This project is concluded (I'll post a note to that effect today). The main Maps project team will look at your ticket. To new location for all maps discussion is the Wikimedia Maps page. JMatazzoni (WMF) (talk) 16:34, 11 July 2018 (UTC)
Map Improvements project has concluded, Wikimedia Maps page is new location for maps talk
[edit]The Map Improvements 2018 was always meant to have a hard stop at the end of June, 2018. Now, having accomplished the project’s main goals, the Collaboration team has moved on to other work (and taken a new name, Growth). This project has concluded and this page will no longer be updated or monitored.
Members of the Reading Engineering team will handle map bugs and maintenance going forward. To read about or discuss their activities, please see the Wikimedia Maps project page. JMatazzoni (WMF) (talk) 16:50, 12 July 2018 (UTC)
Enable within Wikidata Infobox on cywiki
[edit]Following some discussions here a few months ago, we've now agreed in placing the new map onto cywiki. Can someone let me know which templates need copying over and any other instructions, please? It will be placed within our new Wikidata infobox for all villages, towns, cities... Llywelyn2000 (talk) 08:05, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
- Wikidata infobox - 08:05, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
- You may want to see the implementation in 09:05, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
- Hi Mike. I had a good look at WD Infobox. Our WD infobox (link above) will be enabled, however, as it contains items related to cywiki eg includes names of MPs, AMs. If you can enable the Wikimedia Map onto this infobox, I would be most grateful. I think I've copied most templates, but I'm hitting my head against that wiki-wall! Thanks and best regards.... Llywelyn2000 (talk) 17:49, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
- All sorted! Llywelyn2000 (talk) 11:30, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
Community wishlist items
[edit]People watching this page may want to look at m:Community Wishlist Survey 2019/Maps/Maps Improvements: Vector Structure, Disputed Borders, Cleaner Style and related wishlist items.
The wishlist uses approval voting (vote to support any/all wishes that you like), so "oppose votes" are pointless, but useful information, examples, or explanations of problems would be very much appreciated.
Most of the other map-related wishes can be found at 02:27, 26 November 2018 (UTC)